I keep seeing crap like the following on people’s Facebook status and it’s really getting on my nerves.
If you cross the N. Korean border illegally, you get 12 yrs. hard labor. If you cross the Afghanistan border illegally, you get shot. If you cross the U.S. border illegally you get a job, a driver’s license, food stamps, a place to live, health care, housing & child benefits, education, & tax free business for 7 yrs. No wonder we are a country in debt. Re-post if you agree
There are so many things wrong with this that I’m not even sure where to begin, but I’ll try.
First, who the hell wants to go to North Korea or Afghanistan? What kind of comparison is that? Is the person who posted this suggesting that perhaps we should shoot everyone coming across the Mexican border? What about those sneaky Canucks up north or the folks smuggled in through shipping ports and forced into prostitution or sweatshop labor? Kill’em all? Or perhaps we should funnel even more money we don’t have into the prison-industrial, concentration camp, slave labor complex and destroy even more families while creating even more future generations of people with axes to grind with our government.
Second, with few exceptions most wage paying jobs in this country result in payments into the social security system, even when the job is held by an illegal immigrant. That’s money they will never get back. Most immigrants pay taxes just like you and I do, the biggest difference being that while we can expect a bit of a refund sometimes, illegal immigrants generally cannot claim what would otherwise be their due.
If you want to bitch about people who don’t pay their fair share into the system, look no further than the owners and major stakeholders of most multinational corporations. Contrary to popular misconception, most corporations and the upper-crust who own them pay next to nothing in taxes, especially as a percentage of their total annual income.
Consider that if you earn $106,000 (or less) this year, you pay social security and medicaid taxes on 100% of your income, but if you make $212,000, you only pay those taxes on half your income. The more you earn, the less you pay, and don’t even get me started on the charade that is the capital gains tax loophole which allows people who “earn” their income from investments to avoid a huge chunk of their tax bill by shielding most of their real income.
The claim that the US government grants a seven-year tax holiday to certain groups of immigrants – legal or otherwise – is patently false and amounts to nothing more than hate speech. Don’t believe me? Look here and here.
I don’t see all the people wasting their time spreading this thinly veiled racism standing in line to pick the produce, dig the ditches, or do the other nasty, back-breaking work that our (mostly) Latino cousins do when they come here. There are so few illegals left in Georgia today that much of that state’s food crops will rot in the fields this year, and when food rots on the vine or is otherwise not harvested the price we pay for what does make it to market goes higher.
Perhaps if life wasn’t so hard in the home countries of many immigrants (often made that way with the help of American business interests and/or our government) there wouldn’t be so many people clamoring to get into this country. We are not the shining beacon of hope and opportunity our collective mythology would have us believe, and I am encouraged by the progress many social democracies in south and central America have made in the last few years. With any luck we’ll learn something about social justice and democratic change from the influx of Latino blood and ideas into our anglo-American culture.
Immigration, like many other ‘hot button’ issues is just one more means of distracting and dividing the American working class against itself to maintain the power of the elites at the top of our fascist corporatocracy. Next time you see one of these hateful rants circulating on a social network, see it for what it really is, a display of ignorance endorsed and fueled by our corporate masters. Don’t buy into it!
Wish I’d seen this back when they were posting that status:
“Thou shalt not oppress an hired servant that is poor and needy, whether he be of thy brethren, or of thy strangers that are in thy land within thy gates:” –Deut. 24:14
http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/24-14.htm
Hell yeah. Preach it.
Thanks and welcome aboard!
LOL. “Most immigrants pay taxes…”
No shit? What about the immigrants that are here ILLEGALLY?… The people who sit back and leech our benefits, while the legitimate tax-paying citizens have to fork over a portion of their salary to provide them an unfair opportunity at success.
Too bad there’s people like you who have to stick up for them some way.
That’s right Dick, most immigrants, legal or otherwise, do in fact pay into the income tax and FICA system, but if they’re illegal they can never hope to draw Social Security or disability benefits like legals or native born folks.
Truth be known there are just as many tax cheats who are native born citizens of this once fine nation. Matter of fact, I’d be willing to bet there are far more corporate executives and “professional investors” out there cheating the government out of their fair share of the tax burden than there are illegal immigrants suckling at the teat of Uncle Sam. Rest assured, the amount of revenue the big boys avoid paying is far greater than the pittance some poor Latino bastard would be paying on his sub-minimum wage earnings, usually paid under the table by an American company which profits more from paying him less than they would by employing me or you.
Hate the problem Richard, not the victims.
Thanks for posting this. I’ve been surprised by this status a few times and it’s pretty much the most appalling thing I’ve read on facebook. So, I went googling to see if anyone had a thought out response to this one, rather than trying to piece one together for myself. Your phrase, “thinly veiled racism” is an apt way to describe this kind of crap. I’ll never quite understand why people think the greatest threat to their well-being comes from so far below them on the social scale, but I suppose, in the end, it’s racism and class based hate.
Absolutely fantastic. I agree with your take on this subject and your overall ideology, but the logical flow of your argumentation is stellar. Wish you were on Twitter.
I am on Twitter, just follow @thurmanhubbard – every post on this site gets tweeted when published, I just don’t actually tweet much outside of that.
Comment moved to its own special post all by itself by Thurman, please click here to read it and find out why.
There are reasons that illegals get hired over Americans. Illegals come from countries in which they can be worked like dogs and receive little to no pay. In their country, the only way to try to fix this is to work harder.
American workers form unions and can strike and demand a lot more from their employers than they are generating for them. They also tend to think of some aspects of their job as below them. If their employer has something else that needs to get done, Americans can say, “it’s not in my job description.” Illegal immigrants are diligent enough to STFU and do what the guy paying them needs them to do.
So rather than be harder working to compete for jobs, Americans try to breed hate for their competition. Not to mention the fact that any one of these Americans would hire the same illegals if the American was somehow thrown in charge of a whole business.
Just as the original post is a silly simplification of a complex problem so is your response to it.
Really great post man! the only part i disagree with is at the end- “endorsed and fueled by our corporate masters” I think it has a more pointless origin.
They do put a strain on our government when I see 20 living together sending their money back home , getting food stamps and welfare , and medical benefits believe me we don’t see a return on the money they earn . So tell both sides of the story .stay in your own country and stop looking for handouts .
I am clapping now, actually applauding this article. Well done.
Commenting on the response in order of ideas:
There is no suggestion as to what “we” as a country do to those who cross our boarders, only what some FEW services are granted to those that have found loopholes in our governmental policy for those that succeed in crossing them. Putting any suggestion as to what “we” want done to them is all relative to what countries listed are listed, and what punishments(likely fake) they are.
If there are illegals living within the walls, more often then not, I would disagree that they are ALL fully contributing to the Social Security system. It has to be a wage paying job. I would assume that most work that is being fulfilled is a form of sub-contracted work, as a non-taxable net income. IE, work a weekend moving carpet get 100 bucks a day. My friend Ryan did that for some easy money and back breaking work. Born in the USA (to quote the BOSS) My father picks blue-berries for a local farm, and his pay is not wage-based and he gets a check per pound he picks, so more of commission. His is not a taxable source of income. Looking at a lot of those back breaking jobs, are they guaranteed to be taxable incomes?
I agree that more crimes of tax evasion, corruption, and mistreatment happen at the blue-collar level. There are more arrests due to these types of crimes than any other sort of arrestable offense at the Blue Collar level.
Tax breaks…yeah right…it’s American Gov. they want taxes from everything that can pay them. However, if any Illegals are under the radar, in theory, how can you expect taxes to be paid from a person that doesn’t exist in US records. The only method I can think is by services that are taxable and a tax is included within a purchase, ie food and beverage.
I don’t see the connection between racism and the ideas punishments for each respective country listed having a penalty for invading their land. Each countries government has a standardized punishment and process for attaining it, there is no discrimination for a breech into their lands. In reflection on the US, sure there are those who are intolerant to those from inside to those outside.
“We are not the shining beacon of hope and opportunity our collective mythology would have us believe…” I feel that using this discredits a little bit of the notion that our nation being in a better state then another for those others to seek our country as a save haven. Global economics is a thought that just gets thrown out when looking at our own country’s glowing market(sarcasm). Example: you can get about 500 oranges or so in Ecuador for 2 US dollars. In the US, 2 US dollars gets you about 6 oranges. Sell an Old Navy shirt in US, costs 20 bucks, in Ecuador, something much higher, say 60 I hesitate and don’t want to give a number because I don’t know for sure, I only know from talking with a few International Exchange folks I worked with this past summer. One thing they agreed on was it costs too much to live here, and wanted to go home. Once their contract with their sponsor was up, they did indeed go home. And I also agree, it is great as to what has slowly been done to improve the Social style of government in South & Central American, and other global governmental sects that implement it.
It is one thing to diagnose something and respond to it, but another to just let it go. I responded to this only because I re-posted it this comment and I was directed to this response(He phrased it as an article.) It is a blog if I am not mistaken. I was under the idea it was a decent joke, about our country being broke(rhyme not intended). I did not post it under the ideas that our country was broke solely because of Immigrants. With something like this posted on Facebook, or something like that….Just Let it go dude. When someone allows it to become a hot button, it becomes a hot button. Just like chain letters, your crush will kiss you if you send it to 30. I usually would let something like your response go, but it assumes and I will paraphrase my thoughts that “I don’t know anything.” But I did not re-post it as “a display of ignorance.” Just not the case.
Have a good day,
-Matt
Unfortunately I fed the trolls before I googled the FB status and saw this. My reply was as follows. And…I’m afraid I may have just lost a few friends due to my post. I was really upset when I read the original… :(
++++++
Granted, I’m not an expert on undocumented immigrants, but I don’t think turning the US into a country like North Korea, Afghanistan or Iran is the right answer. I think the issue is more nuanced than that. I’m not entirely sure what the right answers are, but I don’t think this post (which I’ve seen several times over the past few weeks is factually correct).
There are, without a doubt, costs to the US from undocumented immigrants. But there are also some benefits that many of us may not know about, and that I didn’t know about until I did more research — especially when it comes to how much money the US government actually makes for Social Security based on what undocumented immigrants pay into the system.
RE jobs — I don’t know the statistics on this. But from living in an area with a high population of undocumented workers, the ones I see are mainly working as housekeepers, standing on corners waiting for people to hire them to do low-wage work as gardeners, hard laborers, movers, etc. That said, I don’t think the argument that undocumented workers mainly do work American citizens wouldn’t do is true — with unemployment at high rates, from what I’ve read, I do believe American citizens would do the housekeeping, farm work, etc. that many undocumented workers do if wages were at least minimum wage or more. I think a bigger problem is that many undocumented workers are more likely to take jobs that pay less than minimum wage or are dangerous because they are less likely to complain for fear of being locked up or deported. If the minimum wage were higher and if employers faced real (and enforced) punitive damages for hiring undocumented workers, American citizens who are blue collar workers would likely see some benefit. Though PEW reports and even Congressional reports have shown that the benefit would likely be very small. I’ve also known a handful of Europeans who have overstayed their visas and found work under-the-table as graphic designers or programmers, etc., but there’s little in the news about those undocumented immigrants…
RE driver’s licenses — Some undocumented individuals do get driver’s licenses through forged paperwork. But it’s not something simply given to them for crossing borders.
RE food stamps — By law, undocumented immigrants can not get food stamps. (1) Even legal immigrants do not qualify for food stamps until they’ve been in the country for five years (only exception is children, who if they are legal immigrants, can qualify for food stamps regardless of how long they’ve lived here). A good friend runs a program for low-income and homeless individuals in Chicago and though this is anecdotal, she says that very few undocumented immigrants attempt to apply for food stamps, section-8 type housing, etc., for many reasons including, again, fears or arrest or deportation. From her experience, most end up homeless or living, as noted below, in deplorable housing conditions with multiple families — often one or two bedroom apartments with, more often than not, 10+ individuals sleeping on floors, sharing beds, etc. At least in her experience, very few of these individuals are attempting to “scam the system” or gain anything more than trying to eek out a living and support their children and/or families back home who live in conditions that many of us can’t imagine.
Re a place to live — I know very little about this. I’m unaware of how undocumented individuals find a place to live for free which is what I’m inferring the post meant. But I’m interested in the details if anybody has them. It’s my understanding that undocumented individuals must buy or rent homes/apartments just like anyone else. And sadly, I’ve personally seen apartments where as many as 12 people have lived in a one bedroom apartment. Not a great situation for anyone involved. I was interviewing to be an apartment manager at the building where I saw this. (I turned down the job.) That said, they can go to homeless shelters. (1)
RE health care — Again, by law, undocumented immigrants can not get medical care for free except in very specific circumstances, i.e., emergency medical care or disaster relief. (1) “Illegal immigrants can get emergency care through Medicaid, the federal-state program for the poor and people with disabilities. But they can’t get non-emergency care unless they pay. They are ineligible for most other public benefits.”(2)
RE taxes — Most undocumented individuals do pay taxes — the SSA estimates that ~75% of undocumented workers pay income taxes benefitting both Social Security and Medicare, mainly benefitting citizens since undocumented workers won’t ever see the SS benefits upon retirement or disability because their mismatched SSN’s used to get work mean they can’t claim those benefits. The SSA says that “the money [taxes] added up to about 10 percent of [2004's] surplus – the difference between what the system currently receives in payroll taxes and what it doles out in pension benefits.” And even though these workers are undocumented, the SSA even factors these taxes into their future projections. In fact, in 2002, the SSA estimated that undocumented workers paid over 7 Billion dollars in income taxes. And in ~2008, that estimate was upped to ~9 Billion dollars. And like the rest of us, they pay sales tax. They also pay property taxes either through home ownership or indirectly via renting. A nonpartisan group, the Congressional Budget Office, estimates that 50-75% of undocumented workers pay local, state and federal taxes. (3) (4)
Re education — Undocumented children do get education, but again, most undocumented adults are paying into the system via taxes which provides that education for undocumented children and citizens alike.
RE tax-free business for 7 years — No. (5)
(1) http://pierre-tristam.suite101.com/undocumented-assumptions-a55867#ixzz0VrSFG1Pr
(2) http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2008-01-21-immigrant-healthcare_N.htm
(3) http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/05/business/05immigration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
(4) http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm
(5) http://www.snopes.com/business/taxes/immigrants.asp
Excellent response. Thank you for helping to fight back against the ignorance and hate that is so easily spread.
Ah, twisted facts from both sides. Some of the responses are nearly as amusing as the drivel posted by Thurman.
If you don’t believe they (illegal immigrants) claim tax benefits, perhaps you should watch the news http://frontpagemag.com/2012/05/21/illegal-aliens-get-billions-annually-in-tax-refunds/
I checked your link Just saying. When you say they, I have to assume you mean all illegals. It seems to me that among illegal immigrants there are is a group (they don’t say how many do this), that are cheaters, just like legal citizens that will do everything to evade taxes or beat the system. This is not because the government gives them the money, this is not because of Obama, or another president, its because they have found a way to cheat the system, that group (not all illegals) are the the felons, just like their counterpart Americans, and they should be prosecuted like felons. But they way you put it seems that all illegal immigrants are benefiting from us lawfully, while the truth is they are doing it unlawfully. They are stealing.
I want to put a question out there.
I went by to help someone staying at one of the 6 houses for homeless people. The church holds the for people that need help
getting on their feet. All 6 houses were donated.
when I got their she was saying how 3 of then have undocumented immigrants in them. And that one is employed as a care taker.
So I guess what should I do? report them? they pay little to no rent and all have big tv’s and cars.